Thursday, August 26, 2010

An Unholy Foundation According to Some.

So Basically,  I’m on Facebook, Connected to a Minister who speaks against many things that are not seen as holy in regard to the bible and secular things. I wont mention his full name here but.  After reading and commenting on a recent status he made Sunday, I had to take time to write this. Why? this time He took aim at all Christians who believe  that “Tongues” Verifies Receiving the Holy Spirit.

Being that I came up on Pentecostal principles, The way it has been interpreted  and told by PEOPLE versus what they were taught, would make you think that they’re crazy. so I know where he’s coming from. but I don’t see the point of making such a big deal about it.
it’s not what we say, it’s about what's written.

I honestly don’t appreciate him calling the Denomination a Cult based on Unholy Doctrine. Here’s how I came into the conversation.

Minister Fred:  To all Christians who have been hounded that you not received the Holy Spirit unless you have spoken in tongues, you received the Holy Spirit when you were Born Again. Not only that, but you were BAPTIZED by the Holy Spirit into Christ's Body. So all of this foolishness about having to speak in tongues is just that, foolishness, just as foolish as tongues we hear in today.

After reading this, I agreed and replied to it .because it’s not written way. But This all Refers to the day of Pentecost. which occurs in the Book of Acts 2: 1-4. Which states Clearly what happened on that day. It’s part of what Pentecostalism was founded on.

At  Acts 2 verse 4 (King James Version) it says this:

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

So I mentioned to him that I'm Pentecostal and I don’t believe in that. (as he stated in his status)  because it’s not written that way  But I guess he didn’t get that because he responded in a rude manner by asking this

Minister Fred: So what language do you hear people speak in at your church?

From there I Ignored the question, I just continued to explain that As a Apostolic Pentecostal I know exactly what the Scriptures say and how its been misinterpreted by the Church. Most people quote this as the Devine Reference Totally forgetting about The rest of the Book. I also Mentioned that folks have forgotten about Acts 2: 36-40.  Where where after being witnessed to of the works of Christ. the people wanted to Know what could they do to. So Peter told them to Be Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now It’s Likely that the Gift they’re referring to is the Gift of The Tongue. Yet It’s not Necessarily Clear. so people identify this as “Catching The Holy Ghost” … It’s not only Pentecostal who say those kind of things though.

And I also Agree with him and the others on the fact that those who claim to have this ability display it by randomly shouting gibberish  But IMO it’s just as fake as those only go to church to draw attention to themselves.

After I stated my Case. I told him that I don't attend any church. and although I'm not big on denominations I do consider myself Pentecostal. I mentioned it because I know that's what they teach within the churches of the Pentecostal denomination.  I also said that I Appreciate the Discussion.

At this point He Seemed to put up an argument by Writing someone else’s comment sometime later (while i was offline)

Minister F( writing someone elses comment): It's amazing how people take one scripture in Acts and try and make a complete biblical doctrine out of it.

At this Point I No Longer wanted to continue the conversation because I took that Personal.  In My last reply I stated that That was not what I’m doing. and the fact that I was only replied because his Status Related to the Day of Pentecost.

The Minister Implied that That post was supposed to be written before I decided to bring it up… Yet he waited Hours before posting it…  and because they were on a tirade against Pentecostalism, I decided to stay out of the conversation.

From Here On Out: I’ll be posting is the rest of the discussion. my Opinions are also beneath them. These Opinions were not written


Minister F: My status is in relation to Acts 2:38. It is this scripture that many Christian cults teach that for people to be born again, they must be water baptized to be saved or boths peak in tongues and be water baptized.

My point of contention with Pentecostals is that what they are practicing today is not what happened in Acts 2:4.

Although I don’t appreciate him saying “Christian Cults”  I understand That Clearly it’s It’s basically the same as I stated from The Start. but instead of trying to understand. he continued to put forth an argument.

At this point. others are begin to reply. I just read along. because I felt that we as Christians this shouldn’t be an argument. I even talked to my mom and sister about it all. and I’ll soon be talking to my boy Ben who just happens to be a Minister of a Pentecostal church.

Here’s the a reply from someone

Richard: The problem is that most people don't know that there are 7 baptisms. This is why Naaman was told to dip 7 times in the Jordan river by elijah. Although there is only one Baptism, there are seven within that one, just like there is only one God but he consists of three persons. This is why in Hebrews 6:1, it teaches us the principles of the doctrine of Christ was imperative to learn before moving on to teach others; The scripture mentions "Baptisms" as one of the six foundational stones of the doctrine of Christ; however, because of denominations most would only learn about the Baptism into the body of Christ (New Birth),Baptism of holy Ghost (Supernatural Power), Baptism of water (Identifying with the death,burial and resurrection of Christ).

Here are the seven

1. Baptism unto Moses (1 Cor 10:2)
2. Baptism unto repentance (Luke 3:1-3, Mark 1:4)
3. Baptism into the Body of Christ ( 1 Cor 12:13)
4. Baptism with water (Acts 10:7)
5. Baptism with Holy Ghost (Acts 1:5)
6. Baptism of Fire (Matthew 3:11)
7. Baptism with his suffering(Matthew 20:23)
Notice I haven't even talked about tongues yet, if the basics are not fully understood than tongues would be too difficult to teach a person.

At this point someone asked if Pentecostals were the only ones that teach this. while putting the acronym for the “Shaking my head” expression.  IMO If she  would have read everything else she would have seen that The Minister said “Some”.. the general reference was to Pentecostals.

Richard Continues: Not just Pentecostals teach speaking in tongues as a manifestation of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is quite common in baptist and other charismatic denominations as well. The difference is nothing more than the revelation of that particular denomination. Most of your denominations have received truth, but because the denomination is founded on a particular revelation and not the revealer "Jesus Christ" the church splits." I say again" The church is founded on Christ, but the denomination is founded on revelation. Think of denominations as different flavors of ice cream, just because i have banana flavored ice cream it doesn't mean I don't have ice cream, it means there are some additional additives that "Man" has added according to their understanding. You see, I studied under most mainstream denominations, and the biggest difference was that God was dealing with all of them according to what they could receive and process mentally and spiritually, Some revelations are so deep it would only cause confusion in some peoples' mind, so their learning has to stop at certain levels. Some people can only see through denominational glasses because that all they know and when they ask their teacher or Pastor hard questions they are rebuked, and told to learn it they way they did, so their learning can only go as far as their Pastor, Teacher or denomination. You can't put new wine into old wine skins lest they burst. Jesus never taught denomination, but people would rather be around other people who have received the same revelations. Some see it as a Bad thing, I see it as a Good thing, God deals with us according to what we can recieve, and if you are hungry and want to know more, you will have to break the denominational wine skin. It doesn't mean leave the church where you are at, but if something isn't making sense to you ask the Lord to open up your mind and show you more. We are all a family founded on Christ's love.

And This is why I read for MYSELF to begin with, I haven’t attended a church on a daily basis since the time i was maybe 12. at that time it was because we didn’t have transportation to the church from where we lived. But we’ve always kept what we have Learned in our hearts. aside from that. I came up with the teachings of my parents as well as reading books in reference to others testimonies and how they dealt with it.

I’m not a one dimensional Christian by a long shot. I soak in all I can learn no-mater the Denomination and I read and try to apply accordingly to the best of my knowledge.

I May have to send Richard a Letter via Facebook thinking him for clearing that up for those who have read.

Alvin Replies: So true! 
Ephesians 4:14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the thead—Christ—

At this point The Minister returns to say his point. basically saying that Christian Cults teach different aspects of salvation. and then he mentions to Richard that there are 2 kinds of revelations and that Man is trying to Make Their own Revelation. Generally repeating the same as he stated above in the end..

Minister F: …Postmodern Christianity places emphasis on relative truth, therefore, allowing for multiple interpretations that break with the context of scripture.

        The key is where did the aberration of today's Pentecostalism originate. There are always Pastors of the mainstream denoms looking for something new. Unfortunately, they find a strange fire in tongues, or unholy doctrine in the necessity of water baptism for salvation. 

See how The Minister Continues to Rip on the value Speaking in Tongues once again. It’s like he wants to be heard so badly that he’s willing to put up any kind of argument to Reject it.

There are Different branches of the Pentecostal Church The Initial principles are the same across the board. and they’re very much like churches of other denominations. The big difference is that they choose have a more enthusiastic kind of service. and If anyone was smart they’d read for themselves. it’s all about how We as individuals apply what we know to our lives. it’s not about what a pastor or minister  told me. or what denomination we are. because at the end of the day, in Christ we are Brothers. So why are You trying so hard Reject another form of Christian worship?

On Occasions I’ve attended other church services , some who have no denomination and aside from the Music and the In House Prayers, Sermons and Testimonial parts to these services.  All They’re really asking you do to is Read for yourself and live according to the word of God. But as i said before as Individuals We all receive the message differently.  and this is why we all should TALK about The Bible amongst our Christian Brothers and Sisters to better understand. Not to put somebody down.

To my knowledge Haven’t been Baptized, but I know what's best for me as I’m a Believer in Jesus Christ. I don’t know the bible as a Should. I cant Quote The Bible Accurately like others, nor am i a bible thumper.. I’m just trying to live Right through the eyes of God.

I Know that there will be some folks who may not agree with anything I’ve stated in this blog entry. but to be honest. It hurts.. because Aside from the teaching of Parents and the Schools. It was Pentecostalism that played a big role in My Life.  Those things were basically  To follow the general rules and morals of Society as is according to Laws of Both Bible and The Land. People have always called me “Good” or “Nice” , Those who know me personally know that I don’t curse when i talk. and I try to be respectful to everyone I encounter. There are people who say I smile to much, people who think that I’m putting on some kind of front. but I’m not. I’m just me.

Benjamin (my friend who’s now a Pentecostal Minister) Had no clue that I was Pentecostal while in school, all he knew that I didn’t curse, or trying to fit in and the fact that I was always a cool dude to be around. . He Recently asked me now that he’s a Minister, Why Didn’t I talk to him back then.  Because he feels that He would have probably wouldn’t have done some of the things he did prior to the things that led him into the church. 

For Me, Part of the reason I Didn’t talk about it (and I told Him This) is because folks  run away from conversations regarding Biblical & Spiritual Matters. Especially when discussing bible prophecy or the end times because they’re Scared to discuss those matters. 

With That Said,   would hear folks talk of what goes on in their Churches they’d even sing songs they came up knowing that were common in their churches. and no doubt, I’d feel Left out because I didn’t go to Church. Therefore I couldn’t really find a way to openly express my thoughts without folks thinking that I was crazy. No  Folks I’m not Crazy nor Confused. I’m only trying to live my life accordingly because I know where My Soul Belongs. and My Journey Isn’t over, Not By A long Shot.

To Anyone  read this, If You are Christian you know that taking part in Biblical discussion is a Great thing. But using Gods word to put forth an argument gets us nowhere. We are equals in Christ. And as we continue to do right by his word He will continue to reward us mentally, physically and spiritual until the end of our days.

Note From The Book

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